Citizen Cope on music streaming: ‘This is a whole new kind of paradigm’

Clarence Greenwood, Singer & Artist “Citizen Cope”, joins Yahoo Finance Live to talk about the music industry and streaming trends, income opportunities for musicians shifting away from touring, the blockchain, and integrating music audiences into web3 and crypto.

Video transcript

BRAD SMITH: Citizen Cope has made his career in music with 20 years on the road. And now, the artist is tracking the blockchain beat as well and exploring where the technology plays a part in the future for recording and performing artists. Singer and artist Citizen Cope joins us now, alongside Yahoo Finance's Ali Canal for more.

And it's great to have you here with us today, particularly as we do know that the entire music industry, and especially for artists, it has changed dramatically over the past two years with not being able to do shows and now starting to get back into shows. For you as an artist, what has that transition meant? And where have you leaned more into over this period of time?

CLARENCE GREENWOOD: I think it just led to a way to kind of adjust. And the thing about the music industry is that you always kind of have to adjust and change because it's always been changing. It's changed a number of times over the years.

So there was the Napster thing, the CD change from vinyl to CD, then to Apple Music, and then to streaming. And the live thing has been a vital part of most people's living. So when that changed, I think a lot of people were kind of used to being able to maneuver a little bit.

And I did some live-streaming concerts from my house. And I was able to kind of get into the whole NFT thing and start to do a lot of research on that and to see where Web3 was going to go with music.

ALI CANAL: And I want to pick up on that point, because you also said in a previous interview, quote, "the idea that the only way an artist can make a living is to play live is kind of a dangerous mindset for the art." And as you were saying, for the longest time, touring was the easiest way, the quickest way for artists to earn an income. But now as you mentioned, we're seeing a boom in NFTs for music, there's also more artists selling their song catalogs, like Stevie Nicks, Red Hot Chili Peppers. So what do you make of what's happening in the space right now, especially when it comes to artists earning a living?

CLARENCE GREENWOOD: Well, I think that a lot of people have gone to selling their copyrights. And I think the idea of just being a musician and having-- for years, everyone said the narrative of, oh, you have to be on the road, and you have to sell merch, and all these kind of things to make a living. And I think that mindset was kind of blocked in a lot of ways because the potential of music is so great.

And the fact that in music, you know, the biggest musicians like a Michael Jackson or a Paul McCartney are not worth as much as somebody that's kind of come in brand new to it like somebody, Daniel L, for example, who has run a great company. But to have come that quickly and to amass that fortune in that small time off of music, it shows that the artist hasn't necessarily done the best job at figuring out how to maximize what the potential of that earning could be.

ALI CANAL: And you've been in the industry for a long time now. What do you make of this streaming boom? I artists have a complicated relationship with that, mixed feelings about the income royalty structure. But at the same time, it's a tried and true way to connect with fans and potentially acquire a new fan base as well.

CLARENCE GREENWOOD: I think streaming is amazing. I think they've done a really good job at getting music out there. I think the only thing that lies is-- the only difference is that they haven't figured out how to break up what-- the artist has not really been in the room in those conversations. And the artist usually hasn't been part of the industry.

But I think as things are changing, the artist is going to hopefully kind of be in that conversation in the future, because I think the streaming companies have relied on the record companies and the master holders to report to the artists. But this is a whole new kind of paradigm and a whole new world.

So I think you can't really place blame on a streaming service or a record company, because it's so brand new. But at the same time, the artist hasn't been at the table. And I think artists should stand up and start to be represented in some way when these licenses occur with streaming companies that the artists are involved in that.

BRAD SMITH: I'm super fascinated in knowing more about where you believe that blockchain and cryptocurrency could play a major role in revolutionizing the music industry, and especially all of the players involved. There's been a big push towards smart contracts, which essentially in the music industry would allow for artists to make sure that the percentage that they are supposed to get from their production, their writing is accounted for, and even everybody down to the musicians, the sound engineers, and so forth. And so where do you see that playing a major role in the future of the music industry?

CLARENCE GREENWOOD: I mean, I think it's amazing to be able to have that kind of information and to be able to do that kind of accounting. So I think that that's going to be great. The question is figuring out how to integrate people that are fans into Web3. I think that's going to be kind of a transition for society at large.

So I think your normal fan isn't necessarily going to know how to access the blockchain yet. So I think finding the right platforms to be able to get your stuff on the blockchain that are actually good for you is going to be somewhat a challenge. It's going to take a little while. But eventually, the blockchain will have that information and the royalty thing will be a little easier.

But at the end of the day, you still got to have people listen to your music. And you got to find people that are into it. So I don't think the production, and marketing, and promotion is going to change that much.

BRAD SMITH: Look, I think you make a great point. At the end of the day, the music's still got to be good. It's got to make people want to listen, want to dance, clap their hands, whatever their form of expression may be. It's great to have you.

CLARENCE GREENWOOD: [INAUDIBLE]

BRAD SMITH: It's been a great opportunity to have you here with us today. We've got our own Ali Canal, Yahoo Finance's own, and Clarence Greenwood, singer and artist-- Citizen Cope joining us today. We appreciate the time.